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Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

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Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Hi,

I purchased an USB irdroid transceiver, which is mostly an irtoy clone. I
had to patch out the debugging LED code as that locks up the device
(cdc-acm driver gets confused and I need to remove/reattach the USB
device), see attached patch. Now the device works with lirc-0.9.4d and
I was able to record some remotes, complete with receiving and
transmitting of button events.

Now I got my hands on an old Blaupunkt remote, a nice chunky device
with actual buttons made of hard plastic instead of rubber. The model
number is 8668812302 and it looks like

        http://thomas.orgis.org/div/blaupunkt_8668812302.jpg

. It looks like the transceiver can see the signals just fine and I get
such output from a little test program that just dumps the bytes from
the irtoy sampling mode:

Mode response ("S01"):

53 30 31

Power button:

00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

Mute button:

00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff


Now, when I fire up irrecord like

        irrecord -n -H irtoy -d /dev/ttyACM3  blauneu.conf

, it mostly looks fine, but results in no useful configuration. The
first funky thing is the overly long second row for the random initial
key presees.

----------8<--------------
irrecord -  application for recording IR-codes for usage with lirc
Copyright (C) 1998,1999 Christoph Bartelmus([hidden email])

This program will record the signals from your remote control
and create a config file for lircd.
[…]

Press RETURN now to start recording.
................................................................................
Got gap (109903 us)}

Please keep on pressing buttons like described above.
....................................................................................................................................................................................

Please enter the name for the next button (press <ENTER> to finish recording)
power

Now hold down button "power".

Please enter the name for the next button (press <ENTER> to finish recording)
mute

Now hold down button "mute".

Please enter the name for the next button (press <ENTER> to finish recording)

Checking for toggle bit mask.
Please press an arbitrary button repeatedly as fast as possible.
Make sure you keep pressing the SAME button and that you DON'T HOLD
the button down!.
If you can't see any dots appear, wait a bit between button presses.

Press RETURN to continue.
Cannot find any toggle mask.

Successfully written config file blauneu.lircd.conf
-------->8----------------

So it fails to find a toggle mask but claims everything is fine … but
looking at the generated config file:

--------8<----------------
begin remote

  name  blauneu
  bits            0
  flags SPACE_ENC|CONST_LENGTH
  eps            30
  aeps          100

  one             0     0
  zero            0     0
  ptrail        575
  pre_data_bits   7
  pre_data       0x7F
  gap          109903
  toggle_bit_mask 0x0
  frequency    38000

      begin codes
          power                    0x0
          mute                     0x0
      end codes

end remote
-------->8----------------

Those button definitions do not look very useful.

Also, after the failed irrecord attempt, I got the driver confusion again …

[243460.101914] cdc_acm 3-2:1.0: failed to set dtr/rts

… maybe related to irrecord not resetting the device mode back from
sampling mode, which requires someone keeping the conversation going.
It would be nice to get the irtoy driver more stable with this device,
but my main issue seems to relate to this particular remote rigth now.
I might test with a serial port receiver some time to verify, but
currently I only got this one USB device to work with.

Does someone have an idea what is going wrong with the button detection
here? Where should one start to look? Judging from the raw irtoy output,
it looks like this old remote should still work.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Alec Leamas


On 10/02/17 16:08, Thomas Orgis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I purchased an USB irdroid transceiver, which is mostly an irtoy clone. I
> had to patch out the debugging LED code as that locks up the device
> (cdc-acm driver gets confused and I need to remove/reattach the USB
> device), see attached patch. Now the device works with lirc-0.9.4d and
> I was able to record some remotes, complete with receiving and
> transmitting of button events.


Hm... before diving into details: the master branch contains an updated
irtoy driver with idroid support. Perhaps you should give it a try - I
*think* you just could replace the irtoy.c file.

Cheers!

--alec

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:19:42 +0100
schrieb Alec Leamas <[hidden email]>:

> Hm... before diving into details: the master branch contains an updated
> irtoy driver with idroid support.

Ah, indeed, that one carries exactly the modification I hardcoded in
the patch. That being said, the bad thing is that the behaviour of
irrecord from master is unchanged. It has the long second dot line for
the random button pressing, does not find any toggle mask, and records
0x0 as button codes.

Ideas?


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Alec Leamas


On 10/02/17 18:36, Thomas Orgis wrote:

> Ah, indeed, that one carries exactly the modification I hardcoded in
> the patch. That being said, the bad thing is that the behaviour of
> irrecord from master is unchanged. It has the long second dot line for
> the random button pressing, does not find any toggle mask, and records
> 0x0 as button codes.
>
> Ideas?

TBH, I don't completely understand the involved code... that said, have
you been using the same button every time you try to get the toggle bit
mask? Occasionally, using another button has worked for me.

Cheers!

--alec

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:48:56 +0100
schrieb Alec Leamas <[hidden email]>:

> TBH, I don't completely understand the involved code... that said, have
> you been using the same button every time you try to get the toggle bit
> mask? Occasionally, using another button has worked for me.

Hm, no, it have been multiple attempts and I now tried again with one I
certainly did not use before. Nothing happens there.

What I would like to know if already that longer second line of dots in
the random button phase is normal.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Orgis
On 02/10/17 16:08, Thomas Orgis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I purchased an USB irdroid transceiver, which is mostly an irtoy clone. I
> had to patch out the debugging LED code as that locks up the device
> (cdc-acm driver gets confused and I need to remove/reattach the USB
> device), see attached patch.

As previously reported on this list, the USB-irdroid is nothing but a
stripped-down IrToy for a highter price, with ancient firmware, and no
boot-loader to update it easily. See e.g.
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7401 .  As
Alec hinted, the current Git contains a driver that identifies the
firmware version (2.0 in irdroid, 2.2 is the official current) and
avoids usage of the GPIO pins on old FW versions.

irrecord is a program from the last century. I suggest you use
IrScrutinizer to capure the signals. It can generate lirc.conf files for
you. It officially supports IrToy with FW 2.2, but I _think_ lower
versions like 2.0 (i.e. irdroid) should work for capturing (not sending,
but that is not the issue right now.)

> Now the device works with lirc-0.9.4d and
> I was able to record some remotes, complete with receiving and
> transmitting of button events.
>
> Now I got my hands on an old Blaupunkt remote, a nice chunky device
> with actual buttons made of hard plastic instead of rubber. The model
> number is 8668812302 and it looks like
>
> http://thomas.orgis.org/div/blaupunkt_8668812302.jpg

If you tell the name and version of the device to be controlled you/we
might find the signals on the Internet (for example the Lirc remote data
base...).

Greetz,

Bengt


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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:45:32 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> As previously reported on this list, the USB-irdroid is nothing but a
> stripped-down IrToy for a highter price, with ancient firmware,

Yeah, I initially aimed for an IrToy but it did not seem to be readily
available in the shops I checked (Germany). It was on price lists, but
out of stock. It didn't feel like spending the time to do full DIY on
that one, but yes, it is awfully expensive for such a simple device.
But I fail to even find simple USB receivers for sensible prices. it
was much simpler with the old serial port.

Oh, to be fair to the Irdroid: It has more IR LEDs at least;-) although
the arrangement of the receiver on the backside (until you bend it out)
i a bit strange.

Anyhow, I might even get me a proper IR Toy to have two devices and the
option to have two computers talk to each other via IR commands, but
the one German shop that has it listed doesn't actually seem to sell.
Might try the french one. But I suspect that this does not change the
trouble with this particular remote.

> and no
> boot-loader to update it easily. See e.g.
> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7401

Hm … but there is at least a way to get current firmware on it.
Interesting.

> irrecord is a program from the last century. I suggest you use
> IrScrutinizer to capure the signals.

Isn't irrecord maintained anymore? I might try to get n IrScrutinizer
build working to check it out. It's this one, right?

        http://www.harctoolbox.org/IrScrutinizer.html

> If you tell the name and version of the device to be controlled you/we
> might find the signals on the Internet (for example the Lirc remote data
> base...).

Oh, I am not sure if one of those is still alive. It was for some 80s
Blaupunkt TV set. I checked the remote database and only found some
Blaupunkt car stereo remote.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/11/17 11:07, Thomas Orgis wrote:

> Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:45:32 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
>
>> As previously reported on this list, the USB-irdroid is nothing but a
>> stripped-down IrToy for a highter price, with ancient firmware,
>
> Yeah, I initially aimed for an IrToy but it did not seem to be readily
> available in the shops I checked (Germany). It was on price lists, but
> out of stock. It didn't feel like spending the time to do full DIY on
> that one, but yes, it is awfully expensive for such a simple device.
> But I fail to even find simple USB receivers for sensible prices.

Check out my "toy": http://www.harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano.html

> it
> was much simpler with the old serial port.
>
> Oh, to be fair to the Irdroid: It has more IR LEDs at least;-) although
> the arrangement of the receiver on the backside (until you bend it out)
> i a bit strange.
>
> Anyhow, I might even get me a proper IR Toy to have two devices and the
> option to have two computers talk to each other via IR commands, but
> the one German shop that has it listed doesn't actually seem to sell.
> Might try the french one. But I suspect that this does not change the
> trouble with this particular remote.
>
>> and no
>> boot-loader to update it easily. See e.g.
>> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7401
>
> Hm … but there is at least a way to get current firmware on it.
> Interesting.

You can solder ICSP pins to the PCB and use a programmer like PicKit3.
Then flash a bootloader too. You can also solder a QSE 157/159 or OPL551
to the free pads next to the TSOP-pie, and you have almost the IrToy. I
have done exactly that.
>
>> irrecord is a program from the last century. I suggest you use
>> IrScrutinizer to capure the signals.
>
> Isn't irrecord maintained anymore?

Then by Alec...

> I might try to get n IrScrutinizer
> build working to check it out. It's this one, right?
>
> http://www.harctoolbox.org/IrScrutinizer.html

Rite.
>
>> If you tell the name and version of the device to be controlled you/we
>> might find the signals on the Internet (for example the Lirc remote data
>> base...).
>
> Oh, I am not sure if one of those is still alive. It was for some 80s
> Blaupunkt TV set. I checked the remote database and only found some
> Blaupunkt car stereo remote.

... and that one appear very weird... At irdb.globalcache.com I found a
Blaupunkt TV, "Many Models", which IrScrutinizer translated to the file
below. (Note the uncommon frequency.) Maybe it works.

Greetz,

Bengt


# IrScrutinizer parametric export
#
# Creating tool: IrScrutinizer version 1.3.1dev
# Creating user: bengt
# Creating date: Sat Feb 11 13:51:50 CET 2017
# Encoding: WINDOWS-1252
#
# Manufacturer: Blaupunkt
# Model: "Many models"
# Displayname:
# Remotename:
#
begin remote
        name blaupunkt
        flags RAW_CODES
        eps 30
        aeps 100
        frequency 30300
        gap 121440
        begin raw_codes
                name BRIGHTNESS_DOWN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name BRIGHTNESS_UP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name CHANNEL_DOWN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 1056 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name CHANNEL_UP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528
                name CONTRAST_DOWN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name CONTRAST_UP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 1056 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name CURSOR_DOWN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 1056 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name CURSOR_ENTER
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528
                name CURSOR_LEFT
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name CURSOR_RIGHT
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name CURSOR_UP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528
                name DIGIT_0
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_1
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_10+
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_2
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 528 528 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name DIGIT_3
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 528 528
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_4
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 1056 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name DIGIT_5
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name DIGIT_6
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 528 528 1056 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name DIGIT_7
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_8
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 1056 528
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DIGIT_9
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 1056 528
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name DISPLAY
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 528 528 528
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name FORMAT_16:9
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                name FUNCTION_BLUE
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 528 528 528 528 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name FUNCTION_GREEN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name FUNCTION_RED
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 1056 528 528 528
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name FUNCTION_YELLOW
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 1056 1056 528
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name GUIDE
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 528 528 1056 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name HELP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 1056 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name INFO
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 528 528 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name INPUT_AUX
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528
                name INPUT_AV
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 528 528 528
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name INPUT_COMPONENT
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name INPUT_S_VIDEO
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 1056 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name INPUT_SCROLL
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 1056 1056 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name INPUT_VGA
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 1056 528
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name MENU_MAIN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 1056 528 528 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name MUTE_TOGGLE
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528
                name PIP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 1056 1056
                        1056 1056 528 528 528 528 528
                name PIP_POSITION
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 1056 1056 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name POWER_OFF
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name POWER_TOGGLE
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 1056 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name PREVIOUS_CHANNEL
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528
                name TELETEXT
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        1056 528 528 1056 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name VOLUME_DOWN
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 1056 528 528 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name VOLUME_UP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 1056 528 528 528 528 1056 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528
                name ZAP
                        528 2640 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528 528 528 21120 528 2640
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 1056
                        528 528 528 528 528 528 528 528
                        528 528 528
        end raw_codes
end remote



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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:17:37 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> Check out my "toy": http://www.harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano.html

That seems sensible, thanks for documenting that approach even with
picture solder-by-numbers style;-) Soldering some components onto an
existing board is not that much of a challenge. I just want to avoid
having to cobble together something from scratch.

> ... and that one appear very weird... At irdb.globalcache.com I found a
> Blaupunkt TV, "Many Models", which IrScrutinizer translated to the file
> below. (Note the uncommon frequency.) Maybe it works.

Nope, that is from a different era. There's menu navigation and 16:9 mode
buttons, waaaaaaay to fancy;-) I also think the freq of my remote is
the normal 38 kHz, as detected by irrecord. I just think it has some
bug translating things to the config … since I can record the bytes
corresponding to the buttons just fine from /dev/ttyACMx, I might even
write a config from those, if I understood how. I'm checking out the
scrutinizer now.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/11/17 14:55, Thomas Orgis wrote:

> Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:17:37 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Check out my "toy": http://www.harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano.html
>
> That seems sensible, thanks for documenting that approach even with
> picture solder-by-numbers style;-) Soldering some components onto an
> existing board is not that much of a challenge. I just want to avoid
> having to cobble together something from scratch.
>
>> ... and that one appear very weird... At irdb.globalcache.com I found a
>> Blaupunkt TV, "Many Models", which IrScrutinizer translated to the file
>> below. (Note the uncommon frequency.) Maybe it works.
>
> Nope, that is from a different era. There's menu navigation and 16:9 mode
> buttons, waaaaaaay to fancy;-)

Don't jump to that conclusion! Many (most) manufacturers do not change
their IR commands every decade! Sony and Philips TVs basically still use
the same commands as when the IR remote was invented -- although there
was of course no 16:9 then.

> I also think the freq of my remote is
> the normal 38 kHz, as detected by irrecord.

That conclusion is simply wrong. First, the irdroid has (only) a
TSOP**38, which strips out the carrier _in hardware_.  (The real IrToy
has a QSE159, and can measure frequency.) Secondly, the driver does not
support measure carrier frequency -- there is a Lirc ioctl
LIRC_SET_MEASURE_CARRIER_MODE, which the driver does not support.
(Thirdly, although there are some indications that Lirc was intended to
be able to measure carrier frequency, I really doubt that it is
implemented and tested...) 38kHz is simply the default frequency.

Greetz,

Bengt

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Thanks for staying with me here …

Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:19:20 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> Don't jump to that conclusion!

OK, fair point. Only the config you managed to find doesn't help lirc
detecting my remote. It serves to educate me that there may be the
option to write down the codes in a more raw manner …

> LIRC_SET_MEASURE_CARRIER_MODE, which the driver does not support.

Hm. So the configured frequency in lirc is simply irrelevant with my
setup. So its use in the configuration file is only decorative anyway:-/

When loading the config you provided, lirc still prefers this one when
I press buttons:

begin remote

  name  blaupunkt
  bits            0
  flags SPACE_ENC|CONST_LENGTH
  eps             0
  aeps            0

  one             0     0
  zero            0     0
  ptrail        575
  pre_data_bits   7
  pre_data       0x7F
  gap          109900
  toggle_bit_mask 0x0
  frequency    38000

      begin codes
          mute                     0x0
          power                    0x0
[…]
      end codes
  end remote
 
It does detect the button presses, but naturally always reports "mute".
So I think the header is not completely wrong. And regardless of what
the real frequency is … would the irdroid detector actually pick up a
30.3 kHz remote?

Note: I got other configuration files for differing remotes and those
are detected normally.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/11/17 15:36, Thomas Orgis wrote:

> Thanks for staying with me here …
>
> Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:19:20 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Don't jump to that conclusion!
>
> OK, fair point. Only the config you managed to find doesn't help lirc
> detecting my remote. It serves to educate me that there may be the
> option to write down the codes in a more raw manner …

Why don't you just try it to see if it works, i.e. the sent signal are
recognized?

>> LIRC_SET_MEASURE_CARRIER_MODE, which the driver does not support.
>
> Hm. So the configured frequency in lirc is simply irrelevant with my
> setup. So its use in the configuration file is only decorative anyway:-/

Not really. When sending, if the driver has the
LIRC_CAN_SET_SEND_CARRIER property, the sending carrier frequency is set
accordingly. The Girs driver does this properly, the IrToy driver not :-\.

>
> When loading the config you provided, lirc still prefers this one when
> I press buttons:

I do not understand that sentence.

> begin remote
>
>   name  blaupunkt
>   bits            0
>   flags SPACE_ENC|CONST_LENGTH
>   eps             0
>   aeps            0
>
>   one             0     0
>   zero            0     0
>   ptrail        575
>   pre_data_bits   7
>   pre_data       0x7F
>   gap          109900
>   toggle_bit_mask 0x0
>   frequency    38000
>
>       begin codes
>           mute                     0x0
>           power                    0x0
> […]
>       end codes
>   end remote

Sorry, this file is nonsense. It says, that a 0 is coded as a pulse of 0
microseconds followed by a gap on 0 micro seconds...

> It does detect the button presses, but naturally always reports "mute".
> So I think the header is not completely wrong. And regardless of what
> the real frequency is … would the irdroid detector actually pick up a
> 30.3 kHz remote?
>
> Note: I got other configuration files for differing remotes and those
> are detected normally.

At least in theory, "normal" frequencies (38kHz +- 2kHz) are picked up
well, but other frequencies are filtered out as noise. So what you
describe is  plausible.

Greetz,

Bengt


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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:54:50 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> Why don't you just try it to see if it works, i.e. the sent signal are
> recognized?

I did.

> > When loading the config you provided, lirc still prefers this one when
> > I press buttons:  
>
> I do not understand that sentence.

OK, let me clarify:

1. I added your config to my set of config files in lircd.conf.d/.
2. I started lircd and irw.
3. When pressing buttons on the Blaupunkt remote, irw reports keypress
   of the mute button as defined in the nonsensical config I quoted.

The newly added configuration is ignored. Also when removing the
nonsense config, nothing is detected for the Blaupunkt remote, while
others still work.

>
> > begin remote
> >
> >   name  blaupunkt
> >   bits            0
> >   flags SPACE_ENC|CONST_LENGTH
> >   eps             0
> >   aeps            0
> >
> >   one             0     0
> >   zero            0     0
> >   ptrail        575
> >   pre_data_bits   7
> >   pre_data       0x7F
> >   gap          109900
> >   toggle_bit_mask 0x0
> >   frequency    38000
> >
> >       begin codes
> >           mute                     0x0
> >           power                    0x0
> > […]
> >       end codes
> >   end remote  
>
> Sorry, this file is nonsense. It says, that a 0 is coded as a pulse of 0
> microseconds followed by a gap on 0 micro seconds...
Exactly! This is what irrecord produces. The effect of this config is
that every button on the Blaupunkt remote is detected as "mute" (simply
the first one of the zero buttons in the list). The remote itself is
identified, but nothing more.

> At least in theory, "normal" frequencies (38kHz +- 2kHz) are picked up
> well, but other frequencies are filtered out as noise. So what you
> describe is  plausible.

I very much suspect that the signals of this remote are being detected,
as I can get these hex bytes out of the receiver in irtoy sampling mode:

Power button:

00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

Mute button:

00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff


Is suspect that a simple error in irrecord fails to parse that.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

PS: I'm trying to build me another transceiver based on your suggestion
with the ATmega board, out of principle (sourcing proved difficult at
least for the receiver parts that are not in stock everywhere … and me
being unsure what exactly the differences are between the variants).

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2

On 02/11/17 20:50, Thomas Orgis wrote:
 > Am Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:54:50 +0100
 > schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
 >
 >> Why don't you just try it to see if it works, i.e. the sent signal are
 >> recognized?
 >
 > I did.
 >
 >>> When loading the config you provided, lirc still prefers this one when
 >>> I press buttons:
 >>
 >> I do not understand that sentence.
 >
 > OK, let me clarify:
 >
 > 1. I added your config to my set of config files in lircd.conf.d/.
 > 2. I started lircd and irw.
 > 3. When pressing buttons on the Blaupunkt remote, irw reports keypress
 >    of the mute button as defined in the nonsensical config I quoted.
 >
 > The newly added configuration is ignored. Also when removing the
 > nonsense config, nothing is detected for the Blaupunkt remote, while
 > others still work.

I mean _sending_ "my" signals to your TV.

If the reception is broken, matching will fail no matter if you try to
match against the correct expected signal, or whatever.


...

 > I very much suspect that the signals of this remote are being detected,
 > as I can get these hex bytes out of the receiver in irtoy sampling mode:
 >
 > Power button:
 >
 > 00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00
2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 >
 > Mute button:
 >
 > 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

The meaning of these numbers can be found in document from
DangerousPrototypes. I _think_ the bytes should be read two at a time
(256*high + low) and denote delays in some unit. Last "ff ff" denotes
end of signal. If absolutely necessary I can hand-parse for you. Anyhow,
can you draw any conclusion from the fact that the two signals greatly
differ in length?

 > Is suspect that a simple error in irrecord fails to parse that.

No, it is the driver that should "parse" and turn it to microseconds
(lirc_t) for lircd/irrecord/mode2.

 > PS: I'm trying to build me another transceiver based on your suggestion
 > with the ATmega board, out of principle (sourcing proved difficult at
 > least for the receiver parts that are not in stock everywhere … and me
 > being unsure what exactly the differences are between the variants).

Nice to hear that. Unfortunately Conrad & Reichelt do not stock e.g.
TSMP58000 See
http://www.harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano_part2.html#Alternative+Components 
And why not consider trying to get a TSMP*30 (i.e.30 kHz) (in addition
to a normal one).

Greetz,

Bengt


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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:38:52 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> I mean _sending_ "my" signals to your TV.

Ah! Big misunderstanding here: I only faintly remember a TV that would
have responded to that remote. I never owned one myself. I got the
thing for the sole purpose of sending commands to a computer, which
then might send out commands to other devices or switch things (it will
be a Beaglebone, most probably). I want to use the old remote as an
universal remote for my gear. I like the haptics of the acutal hard
buttons on the thing and the idea of using this many decades old device
in a modern context, replacing lots of flimsy individual remotes for
things like HDMI switch, beamer, LED strip.

If the signals it generates were incompatible with the receivers I
have, another option would actually be to build a custom sender into the
thing. There is enough space to fit in half a dozen of microcontrollers.
It might even get wifi, bluetooth, and a headphone amp! But actually I
prefer the old-school IR, where I know that it does not leave the room
and does not need firewall rules on my router.

>  > Mute button:
>  >
>  > 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff  
>
> The meaning of these numbers can be found in document from
> DangerousPrototypes. I _think_ the bytes should be read two at a time
> (256*high + low) and denote delays in some unit.

Yes. This is why I can always resort to just detecting these codes
myself. But Lirc supposedly can do that for me already (esp. the fuzzy
matching on pulse lengths).

> If absolutely necessary I can hand-parse for you.

You are very kind and I am astonished that you'd consider that, thank
you. But really, that far I could go myself. Activating some
verbosity/debugging inside the irtoy driver should do the trick,
too.

> Anyhow,
> can you draw any conclusion from the fact that the two signals greatly
> differ in length?

This is the part why my limited experience comes into play. Are the
signals from one remote usually of the same lenght? It sounds sensible,
at least. Yes, I should check that with my test program. And behold me
pressing the power button repeatedly:


 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 37 df 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 37 df 13 64 00 11 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff


Well, I get the pattern repeated when pressing a bit longer. I have to
be rather swift to trigger the sequence only once. So I try to be
consistently quick, waiting for 0xffff after each press.

power:

 00 10 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2e 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0d 00 1c 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 10 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff


mute:

 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3f 00 35 00 1f 00 1b 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3f 00 35 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

Hard to avoid repeats … but yes, this pattern misses a pulse compared
to the power button. Let's try others.

number 5:

 00 50 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 50 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 50 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 50 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

number 1:

 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 67 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0e 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0e 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0e 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 30 ee 00 08 ff ff
 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0e 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

(Junk in next-to-last line might be due to me turning the remote.)

volume up:

 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 62 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1e 00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

color down:

 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 6c 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 13 6c 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
 00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

Summary, with some additions:

power:       00 10 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
mute:        00 12 00 3e 00 36 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
volume up:   00 12 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
volume down: 00 1c 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
color down:  00 40 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
color up:    00 12 00 0f 00 25 00 1f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
number 1:    00 1c 00 1f 00 1b 00 0e 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
number 2:    00 2c 00 0f 00 1b 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
number 3:    00 26 00 0d 00 1c 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
number 4:    00 12 00 0f 00 35 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff
number 5:    00 50 00 0f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b ff ff

So, 0x001f 0x001b seems to mark the end of a button and it is sometimes
sent twice (or sort of 2.5 times, actually). The buttons genuinely seem
to differ in length … or maybe they are supposed to be padded to the
same length using 0x001f 0x001b? Does lirc expect buttons to have the
same length?

The remote for my Asus video beamer seems to feature codes of same
length and the IR sequences are _much_ longer. I guess this Blaupunkt
is really a rather early design where one did not suspect too many
differing IR devices in the same room. Lirc is supposed to identify
buttons from one to three significant pulses, basically.*

How unusual is it to have so short sequences, of differing length,
even? Will Lirc even be able to recognise these when I hand-tune a
config?


Alrighty then,

Thomas

* On the other hand, I already have two of these modern
  long-pulse-sequence devices conflicting, with one Chinese HDMI matrix
  sharing codes with a Chinese LED strip. Long sequences don't help if
  manufactures do not bother to change the remote setup when churning
  out a differing product. That is why I probably need two senders to
  separate those optically. I wonder if I could switch between two
  separately mounted LEDs on one Arduino-based Transceiver … my
  Beaglebone has only one USB port and I don't want to add an always-on
  active USB hub. Maybe a passive one can work.

PS:

> Nice to hear that. Unfortunately Conrad & Reichelt do not stock e.g.
> TSMP58000

Yes, I resorted to Farnell for that, they have a partner in Berlin
delivering to mere mortals with somewhat reasonable shipping cost. Both
the TSMP58000 and the TSOP34438 are at least listed as being in stock.
Even the latter is hard to find elsewhere. Would a different receiver be
compatible without modifications? The TSOP4838 is what you easily get.

The thing about "parts for this project are around 8 €" is really that
when you are going to order those in small quantities (even from
different suppliers because of differing stock), shipping costs can
increase that manyfold. Considering that, the Irdroid, or the original
Irtoy for that matter, are really not that expensive. I well remember
why I initially decided against building a transceiver myself … I now
spent a lot more money than intially intended, partly to fill up orders
to minimum imposed by the shop. Yeah, all stuff I "would have bought
eventually to finish $PROJECT" …

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/12/17 14:01, Thomas Orgis wrote:

> Am Sun, 12 Feb 2017 10:38:52 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I mean _sending_ "my" signals to your TV.
>
> Ah! Big misunderstanding here: I only faintly remember a TV that would
> have responded to that remote. I never owned one myself. I got the
> thing for the sole purpose of sending commands to a computer, which
> then might send out commands to other devices or switch things (it will
> be a Beaglebone, most probably). I want to use the old remote as an
> universal remote for my gear. I like the haptics of the acutal hard
> buttons on the thing and the idea of using this many decades old device
> in a modern context, replacing lots of flimsy individual remotes for
> things like HDMI switch, beamer, LED strip.

IMHO, not a very good engineering choice. Better to find something that
sends for example NEC1 signals.

...

>> If absolutely necessary I can hand-parse for you.
>
> You are very kind and I am astonished that you'd consider that, thank
> you. But really, that far I could go myself. Activating some
> verbosity/debugging inside the irtoy driver should do the trick,
> too.

Actually, it boils down down to something that takes the pair of bytes
and transforms it to microseconds, (256*high + low)*tick. Should be 10
lines of Python. or such. The sequence of the thus generated numbers can
be analyzed with the Scrutinizer (past to the "Scrutinize signal" pane).

>
>> Anyhow,
>> can you draw any conclusion from the fact that the two signals greatly
>> differ in length?
>
> This is the part why my limited experience comes into play.

The answer I expected was that the random lengths indicate that the
measurements are essentially noise.

> Are the
> signals from one remote usually of the same lenght?

Another issue. Most protocols (including Blaupunkt) yes. There are
others (Bi-phase, "Manchesten encoding", RC5/RC6) for which this is not
the case, but then they are in general of constant length in micro
seconds (Lirc's CONSTANT_LENGTH).


> It sounds sensible,
> at least. Yes, I should check that with my test program. And behold me
> pressing the power button repeatedly:

Since you have a really cool IR analyzer in the pipeline, lets wait
until you have that. In conjunction with IrScrutinizer, you will see
that its signal analyzing capacities blows Lirc away...
...
> PS:
>
>> Nice to hear that. Unfortunately Conrad & Reichelt do not stock e.g.
>> TSMP58000
>
> Yes, I resorted to Farnell for that, they have a partner in Berlin
> delivering to mere mortals with somewhat reasonable shipping cost.

Sounds good.

> Both
> the TSMP58000 and the TSOP34438 are at least listed as being in stock.
> Even the latter is hard to find elsewhere. Would a different receiver be
> compatible without modifications? The TSOP4838 is what you easily get.

See the previously quoted document. Note that there are (at least) two
different pinouts around.

> The thing about "parts for this project are around 8 €" is really that
> when you are going to order those in small quantities (even from
> different suppliers because of differing stock), shipping costs can
> increase that manyfold.

Mouser has free shipping for orders > 50€, which is not that hard to
reach. (I live within walking distance from their European HQ (NOT
located in the tax paradise Ireland, respect!!) but they only deliver
from Texas)

Greetz,

Bengt

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:20:48 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> > buttons on the thing and the idea of using this many decades old device
> > in a modern context, replacing lots of flimsy individual remotes for
> > things like HDMI switch, beamer, LED strip.  
>
> IMHO, not a very good engineering choice. Better to find something that
> sends for example NEC1 signals.

Well, who said this was an engineering choice? I just thought the
remote is nice;-) Frankly, I just hoped that it'll work out somehow. I
did not bother reading up on IR signal protocols at all. This little
fun idea is getting more serious than I ever intended. This all started
because I remembered setting up lirc a long time ago (or even WinLirc)
to control a PC with a cheap universal remote … it just worked back then.

> Actually, it boils down down to something that takes the pair of bytes
> and transforms it to microseconds, (256*high + low)*tick.

Sure thing. But I am not so sure what I learn from that. Well, I
figured out that the raw format the IrScrutinizer likes is +pulse_us
-pause_us …

> Should be 10 lines of Python. or such.

… yeah, similar in Perl …

> be analyzed with the Scrutinizer (past to the "Scrutinize signal" pane).

… well, then. It changes the signal (normalizes/cleans it up, I guess)
somewhat. Like power button:

irtoy:       00 10 00 0f 00 1b 00 2f 00 1b 00 1f 00 1b
decoded:      +341  -320  +576 -1003  +576  -661  +576
scrutinized:  +331  -331  +597 -1003  +597  -597  +597 -50

It deduces intro length 4 (that number differs with differing buttons)
and frequency 38000. I wonder: Does that mean the signal is really 38
kHz or just that my receiver sampled it at 38 kHz? I suspect the
latter, as the reported pulses will of course be divisible by the
oscillator period of the receiver. Or is IrScrutinizer trying to undo
the frequency aliasing? Also, I just realise that the 21.3333 µs
interval of irdroid protocol corresponds to about 47 kHz sampling
frequency. Yet another value. Excuse my rambling … I did not read any
background document on IR protocols/detection, just trying to get the
minimum knowledge to fathom what is going on.

> The answer I expected was that the random lengths indicate that the
> measurements are essentially noise.

… heavily aliased by the differing frequency, you mean?

> Since you have a really cool IR analyzer in the pipeline, lets wait
> until you have that. In conjunction with IrScrutinizer, you will see
> that its signal analyzing capacities blows Lirc away...

Well, mainly that the hardware can physically detect differing
frequencies, I presume … Can you tell me how much current the assembled
analyzer draws? I wonder how good my chances are to run two of them off
the single USB port of the Beaglebone with a passive hub … trying to
reduce the number of power supplies/cabling involved. I guess my desire
to have two separate emitter diodes to be able to selectively control
devices that react to the same codes (exclusive diode taped to one of
them, blocking out the other diode) is tricky to implement in one
device? I imagine firmware hacking to present multiple devices …

Btw. I was serious about the option to mod the remote. I got a matrix
of buttons (heck, perhaps even individual contacts … was a lot of
traces to that glued chip in there) and could connect a microcontroller
that implements any sensible protocol. Could add funky switches. There
are many ways to go overboard;-)


Alrighty then,

Thomas

PS: If the remote turns out to be 30 kHz, couldn't just modify my
irdroid with an 30 kHz receiver (and different oscillator)?

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/13/17 01:26, Thomas Orgis wrote:
> Am Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:20:48 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
>
...
>> Actually, it boils down down to something that takes the pair of bytes
>> and transforms it to microseconds, (256*high + low)*tick.
>
> Sure thing. But I am not so sure what I learn from that. Well, I
> figured out that the raw format the IrScrutinizer likes is +pulse_us
> -pause_us …

Parsing of user inputs is fairly forgiving; the signs are not required.

...
>
> It deduces intro length 4 (that number differs with differing buttons)
> and frequency 38000. I wonder: Does that mean the signal is really 38
> kHz or just that my receiver sampled it at 38 kHz?

No. IrScrutinizer has not received any information at all of the
frequency, and falls back to the fallback frequency, which happens to be
settable (Options -> Fallback frequency).

> I suspect the
> latter, as the reported pulses will of course be divisible by the
> oscillator period of the receiver. Or is IrScrutinizer trying to undo
> the frequency aliasing? Also, I just realise that the 21.3333 µs
> interval of irdroid protocol corresponds to about 47 kHz sampling
> frequency. Yet another value. Excuse my rambling … I did not read any
> background document on IR protocols/detection, just trying to get the
> minimum knowledge to fathom what is going on.

Try http://www.sbprojects.com/knowledge/ir/

>> The answer I expected was that the random lengths indicate that the
>> measurements are essentially noise.
>
> … heavily aliased by the differing frequency, you mean?
>
>> Since you have a really cool IR analyzer in the pipeline, lets wait
>> until you have that. In conjunction with IrScrutinizer, you will see
>> that its signal analyzing capacities blows Lirc away...
>
> Well, mainly that the hardware can physically detect differing
> frequencies, I presume …

See
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/High-Speed_capture_mit_ATmega_Timer

> Can you tell me how much current the assembled
> analyzer draws?

No. You have to look up the current of an Arduino nano (ATMega328)
yourself :-). Add the IR sending current, if appropriate.

> I wonder how good my chances are to run two of them off
> the single USB port of the Beaglebone with a passive hub … trying to
> reduce the number of power supplies/cabling involved. I guess my desire
> to have two separate emitter diodes to be able to selectively control
> devices that react to the same codes (exclusive diode taped to one of
> them, blocking out the other diode) is tricky to implement in one
> device? I imagine firmware hacking to present multiple devices …

Several output channels do actually pose a problem, since the number of
timers is limited. Considered a simple hardware AND-ing?

> Btw. I was serious about the option to mod the remote. I got a matrix
> of buttons (heck, perhaps even individual contacts … was a lot of
> traces to that glued chip in there) and could connect a microcontroller
> that implements any sensible protocol. Could add funky switches. There
> are many ways to go overboard;-)

This could be a very cool project. Let me suggest that you find a
suitable encoder, using I2C? (Google gives 411000 hits for "i2c keypad
controller"). Use the same type of Arduino. Confine yourself just to,
say, NEC1, modify this firmware https://github.com/bengtmartensson/AGirs 
and/or  https://github.com/bengtmartensson/Infrared4Arduino to send
commands according to the keys, instead of text commands.


> PS: If the remote turns out to be 30 kHz, couldn't just modify my
> irdroid with an 30 kHz receiver

This should ("should") work.

 > (and different oscillator)?

What oscillator?

Greetz,

Bengt

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Thomas Orgis
Am Mon, 13 Feb 2017 18:26:51 +0100
schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:

> Try http://www.sbprojects.com/knowledge/ir/

Thanks for the pointer.

> No. You have to look up the current of an Arduino nano (ATMega328)
> yourself :-). Add the IR sending current, if appropriate.

Yeah, there is of course information on that. I wondered how much the
LEDs add, but as they need only short pulses, things should work out,
perhaps adding a capacitor to deliver the load.

> Several output channels do actually pose a problem, since the number of
> timers is limited. Considered a simple hardware AND-ing?

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean with hardware AND here. But I do not
really need two full channels (maybe I am misunderstanding what you
mean with "channel"), I just need a toggle to tell the device to use
LED A or LED B for sending … no need to have two sending channels in
parallel. The software side needs to be adapted, but a hacked lirc
driver that maps certain remotes to sender A or sender B would do the
trick.

There's a heavyweight solution, though: I got a relay board to be
controlled via GPIO from the beaglebone … I could actually switch
between LEDs via a hardware relay, though the current is really small
for those big fellows. Or I could do something directly with the GPIO
pins. The nice thing would be that this is a separate side channel and
no modifications to firmware or software for IR is needed (the button
event would be configured to call a script that sets the correct LED
and then tells lirc to send the respective output signal).

> > Btw. I was serious about the option to mod the remote.
> This could be a very cool project.

I am keeping this in mind. It did no work with microcontrollers yet, I
need to think hard about how much time I'd have for this as yet another
hobby. If I do this, I will for sure also modify the hardware to add
some funky extra switches and maybe some pointing device … motion
sensor, like the Wii remote … damn, don't give me ideas!


> > PS: If the remote turns out to be 30 kHz, couldn't just modify my
> > irdroid with an 30 kHz receiver  
>
> This should ("should") work.

… with a pin-compatible receiver, so the same model just with 30 at the
end instead of 38 … actually, comparing the datasheets, it seems to me
that the TSOP48xx are very much compatible to TSOP348xx. Differences
are hard to spot. One addition is "improved immunity against HF and RF
noise". Could it be that the TSOP48xx are simply the successor models?
Would make sense that they are much easier to get.

>  > (and different oscillator)?  
>
> What oscillator?

Please forget that. There is a 20 MHz crystal for the controller clock,
not for the IR signal.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

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Re: Trouble setting up an old Blaupunkt remote

Bengt Martensson-2
On 02/14/17 00:14, Thomas Orgis wrote:
> Am Mon, 13 Feb 2017 18:26:51 +0100
> schrieb Bengt Martensson <[hidden email]>:
...
>
> Yeah, there is of course information on that. I wondered how much the
> LEDs add,

Long answer:
http://harctoolbox.org/arduino_nano_part2.html#Appendix.+Computing+the+current+through+the+IR+LEDs

Short answer: The components given should use aroung 30mA, slighty less
than the maximum GPIO current of 40mA. But you can design it yourself.
Be careful not to extend the specs of the GPIO pins. (or use a driver,
like BS170 or BC547).

 > but as they need only short pulses, things should work out,
> perhaps adding a capacitor to deliver the load.

Rite.
>
>> Several output channels do actually pose a problem, since the number of
>> timers is limited. Considered a simple hardware AND-ing?
>
> Sorry, I am not sure what you mean with hardware AND here.

7408 or a modern version thereof. (German: "Und-Gatter")

> But I do not
> really need two full channels (maybe I am misunderstanding what you
> mean with "channel"), I just need a toggle to tell the device to use
> LED A or LED B for sending … no need to have two sending channels in
> parallel. The software side needs to be adapted, but a hacked lirc
> driver that maps certain remotes to sender A or sender B would do the
> trick.

Yeah, this is essentially what I mean by hardware AND-ing. Generate one
signal, put it to n gates, each being controlled by e.g. a GPIO pin. A
command like the lircd/irsend SET_TRANSMITTERS simple turn these GPIO
pins on or off.


...
> I am keeping this in mind. It did no work with microcontrollers yet, I
> need to think hard about how much time I'd have for this as yet another
> hobby.

Have a look at the Arduino universe.

...

>>> PS: If the remote turns out to be 30 kHz, couldn't just modify my
>>> irdroid with an 30 kHz receiver
>>
>> This should ("should") work.
>
> … with a pin-compatible receiver, so the same model just with 30 at the
> end instead of 38 … actually, comparing the datasheets, it seems to me
> that the TSOP48xx are very much compatible to TSOP348xx. Differences
> are hard to spot. One addition is "improved immunity against HF and RF
> noise".

"Improved sensitivity against noise" (like AGC4 in Vishay terminology)
can mean that short signals are considered "noise".

> Could it be that the TSOP48xx are simply the successor models?
> Would make sense that they are much easier to get.

Just experiment.

Greetz,

Bengt


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